(no subject)

[fuyu]

I am mildly confused!

So over on F!S, there's a secret about how Alice shouldn't have been a Princess of Heart, Pocahontas deserved it more - and just about every single reply is along the lines of "Hey, yeah! I never thought of that before! Pocahontas should be a Princess instead of her!"

And I'm just over here going "Uh... but...?"

See, one of the things that made KH1 so great, and which KH2 really fell down on, was that every character, every world, had reasons to be there. All characters filled particular roles, and were pretty well integrated - it's why, in KH1, the Disney-Square fusion feels so much stronger. The Disney worlds, in particular, all had two or three reasons for Sora to be there other than "O HAI U HAS PROBLEMS. I FIX K. O R MAI FRENDZ HEER?" They introduced some plot element, or developed a character, or furthered the conflict... etc. (As opposed to KH2, where the majority of the worlds are "Oh, well, we need some worlds to fill out space and I think we had characters from this one, let's toss it in.") I can think of quite a few off the top of my head for Alice and Wonderland:

- Wonderland's probably the first world you're gonna go to. As a design choice, leading off with a classical world that's an iconic example of Disney whimsy is a pretty solid one. Sora's had his dose of darkness and despair already, Wonderland is playful and lightens the mood, and gives Sora a decent threat to combat without making it feel DIRE AND TERRIFYING right off the bat.

- There's a couple plot hooks you need to introduce early on: there are Heartless everywhere, someone out there has nefarious plans and is kidnapping particular girls. Wonderland fills these nicely. It seems simple and straightforward to help Alice, but then she's gone, leaving you to wonder WTF just happened, and want to go find out.

- Alice is there to be a good person, an innocent, who's coming under fire and that Sora has to save, so he can properly get his hero boots on. She's also there to then disappear mysteriously. I don't like it much, but pretty much her whole purpose is to be a victim, so that Sora can be a hero and see there's something for her to be a victim of.

Granted it's been a long damn time since I watched Pocahontas, but I'm trying to replace Alice with her and Wonderland with her world and... no. Her world doesn't serve the same you've-had-your-angst-now-have-some-silly-crack aesthetic purpose that Wonderland served. Given what I remember of Pocahontas, it would be an insult and a disservice to her to stick her with Alice's role of Victim For The Plot. It suits Alice pretty well, because Alice's whole thing was that she wandered haplessly into and got lost in a world that was FREAKING INSANE, but those aren't Pocahontas's themes at all.

Another point of contention from the secret was that Alice isn't even a princess, how'd she get to be a Princess of Heart? Uh... same way Belle, Cinderella, and possibly Kairi did, I guess. Belle and Cinderella married into royalty, if I recall? Belle especially was a simple French country girl who liked to read. (And isn't even married to the Beast yet, therefore not technically ranked a princess). We know jack diddly squat about Kairi's life in Hollow Bastion, so we don't know if she's royal or not, but even if she is I think it's pretty plain she's left all that behind. Let's not forget Ariel was a princess too, but not a Princess of Heart even though she arguably deserves the status too. And Wendy was under investigation for the possibility of being a Princess, even though she's also not royalty. The whole point of the Princesses of Heart is that they aren't necessarily literal princesses. They can be, sure, but the important thing is their hearts.

I dunno. Maybe I analyze the themes too much. But Pocahontas and her world really wouldn't work in Alice's place, I can see why they went with Alice.




There is also the matter of Pocahontas being Native American, and KH being a Japanese game made by Japanese people in Japan. Yes, it's Disney. Disney in Japan. I dooooon't think I want to see the fallout of them trying to do Pocahontas's story in KH, especially when Disney already bastardized her over here. XD;

Comments

[lazzchan.livejournal.com]

Very good points, all of them. <3

[princealia.livejournal.com]

That's probably something that's carried over from the Disney fandom with the whole "But why isn't (*insert heroine here*) a princess if every girl is a princess?1 D:". I personally hate that ideal, but part of me always wants to say that's where they got that from for the game since sometimes Alice is considered a princess for merchandise purposes, along with Mulan, Tinker Bell (well, use to be before they decided she was the star of Peter Pan and gave her her own line :P) and Pocahontas. I don't even think Pocahontas is considered a "princess" in her culture, even if she's royalty by being the chief's daughter. I wanna say that's how she would equate in our culture, but I don't remember.

Pocahontas' world, as much as I like her, would have been WAY too serious for KHI (Maybe even KHII, but considering it deals with racism, I think it might have worked if they did it right). Then again, the KH fandom could have used a dose of that considering most think Disney movies can't ever be serious.

[elanor-pam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Pocahontas movie kind of crapped all over actual history. And it wouldn't work as a world, period. Too brown, too "realistic", and where would we shoehorn magical creatures there? All other world in KH have an element of magic, as far as I can see... is Tarzan a KH world?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Pocahontas... really doesn't fit in KH. I can just imagine the fresh outrage if they did include that world.

And it's probably not there due to its lack of popularity more than anything.

[yui-hime.livejournal.com]

There is also the matter of Pocahontas being Native American, and KH being a Japanese game made by Japanese people in Japan. Yes, it's Disney. Disney in Japan. I dooooon't think I want to see the fallout of them trying to do Pocahontas's story in KH, especially when Disney already bastardized her over here. XD;

That is my entire argument right there.

[lynxgriffin.livejournal.com]

Oh good, I wasn't the only one scratching my head at all that. I mean, not that it wouldn't be fun to see a Pocahontas world in a future game, but I'd say seeing that world is about as likely as seeing a HBoND world: they just weren't popular movies. It's like the secret was blaming KH for the fact that these movies weren't popular, when rather it's pretty much the complete opposite. I was shocked enough that we got a "Tron" world in KH2, but I think that's a) because that movie was much more popular in Japan, and b) that world actually fit with the plot tons better than, say, Port Royal.

And yeah, I agree that the whole "Princess of Heart" title really has absolutely nothing to do with being an actual princess, as Cinderella, Belle, Alice and (I believe) Kairi prove.

[kiaxet]

You make an excellent argument. Kudos. :Db

Pocahontas, to me, seems more like the kind of character you'd get in your party than the kind of character that needs to be saved. She's closer to the Mulan end of the Disney Princess scale, and so wouldn't work in Alice's place.

And I think I might be the only person out there who wouldn't mind seeing Pocahontas in a KH game. I would find that spiffy. :D;

[teal-deer.livejournal.com]

Agreed on all points. I actually think one of the strongest things about Princesses of Heart is that most of them are NOT royal blood - I don't THINK Snow White was, and Belle and Cinderella CERTAINLY are not. Hell, the POINT of Belle and Cinderella were that they were NOT princesses but ordinary peasantfolk (well... Cinderella was technically aristocracy but treated like a goddamn peasant) who lucked out. The point is not who you're born to - it's the power of your heart.

And god. Japan is bad enough with their racism (There, I said it.) They don't need to be mucking around with Pochohontas. Kthxbai.

[sexpress.livejournal.com]

I saw that secret too and I definitely agree with you. There wouldn't be much to do in a Pocahontas world in the first place, I think, and a lot of the princesses were from older Disney movies, which had a lot more princess characters or princess themes in the first place.

[trenchkamen.livejournal.com]

I always wondered (before KH2) whether or not Mulan should be a princess of heart, as she's a total badass, but she in no way fits the 'victim' image. Then again, neither do Belle or Jasmine. Mulan and Pocahontas are cut from the same fabric of warrior-women.

Coming in late to the party, but...

[luriko-ysabeth.livejournal.com]

..your analysis of Wonderland helps me understand why they made a choice for Alice to be a Princess of Heart, which always confused me before.

Not because of the "princess" part, but because of the "heart" portion of the title -- just about every Disney heroine I can think of has demonstrated more strength of heart than Alice. Alice just wanders around Wonderland (and Looking-Glass Land, for that matter) going "OMGWTFBBQ!"

I wonder whether it would have worked storywise to switch Alice and Wendy? Either the world entire, or just the princess/mistaken for princess part?

(I have yet to play all the way through the original KH; caveat debator.)