random thought exercise

[fuyu]

Meet Grim Eyes, a hunter in the highly matriarchal hyena society of Digger. (Unless you already read Digger. ... Which you should anyway.)

I'm curious. What are people's gut reactions to this? I think it makes for an interesting thought exercise, so feel free to tell me what you think. Anon comments are fine of course, IP logging is off.

Comments

[dev-chieftain.livejournal.com]

KILL IT WITH FIRE

I don't really have a gut reaction to it.

[dev-chieftain.livejournal.com]

but I wanted to make the furry/4chan reference

[dev-chieftain.livejournal.com]

also, god I'm tired

[fuyu]

XD ♥

I was just really interested in my own, and what Ursula did with the gender roles there, and I wanted to know what others' feelings on it were. :O

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I really do like how she turned sexism in on itself-- I mean, if you had a matriarchal society, isn't that what the sexism would look like? I've actually stopped reading Digger recently, I should get back to it. I think it's pretty cool.

A few days ago I actually wrote a story about hyenas and the inversion of sexism in matriarchal culture, too (absolutely nothing to do with Digger). So I've been thinking a lot about this.

[fuyu]

Yeah, she did such a neat and tidy job of it, I was impressed. And because she did such a neat job of it, I find it a really intriguing example to examine my own feelings and assumptions. It's interesting that, while I find myself mildly irritated at Grim Eyes for her casual, unthinking, ingrained misandry - I'm not as angry about it as I would be by casual, unthinking, ingrained misogyny. I'm finding it really interesting to poke at that reaction and try to figure out why it is.

Oooh, sounds interesting. Hyenas are kind of awesome for that. That's an idea that should be explored more, if you ask me, it's such a useful thought exercise.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Because misandry isn't the norm in society. So while she's a blatant misandrist it's not an example of something that's been hurting you all your life. A more bothersome example of misandry would be something like "of course men aren't good at being domestic, they're not intelligent enough to do laundry." Here it's really so abstract and intellectual that I can't even find myself being bothered by it, just going "I see what you did there." Probably more interesting to me in terms of sexism was Skin Painter's relationship, because she spun the domestic abuse victim idea right around.

They are! I actually only wrote it as biologically/behaviorally correct about Hyena and Lion-- and realized that... oh hey. I was making some kind of point. Maybe.

Mostly I've always just liked hyenas, ever since I was little.

[fuyu]

Yes, definitely. I was referring more to the personal dimension. Like... misandry isn't the norm, and I am presented with misandry that is treated the same way misogyny is, and not deeply bothered: is it because, as you said, it's so abstract it doesn't hit the same nerves? is it on some level a feeling that it's a fitting reversal? what would it say about me, or someone else, as a person and feminist if it was one or the other or both?

(Mainly I think you're right on the money, though.)

And oh, god, yes, that was devastating and fascinating.

I am intrigued and would possibly be interested in reading this!

You know, another interesting example I came across of a matriarchy having the same problems as patriarchy, was actually in Phoenix Wright, with the Fey clan; though I don't know if that was how it was intended. I made lots of happy noises when it came up, one way or the other.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

is it on some level a feeling that it's a fitting reversal?

There is a bit of that, I think. I know I definitely go, HAHA! SUCKS TO BE YOU NOW. I mean, obviously these are all fictional characters so it's not like anyone is being oppressed or any 'real' prejudice is being shown and reinforced, and it is nice in a schadenfreude way to see something I've seen said about my attempts to be taken seriously put on the same class that's been doing the saying. I mean, also when Grim Eyes says it, you see how blatantly stupid it is*, so there's that bit too. But people who've rationalized such an attitude about women won't really see how dumb it is for any reason other than "but of course men are just as good as women!"

But obviously, women are still not as good as men, but there's reasons for that, and they make sense! Or something. Maybe I shouldn't comment on things at 7 AM.

*Interestingly, female hyenas choose for more docile males. Males with lots of testosterone tend to get overlooked because they're too aggressive, and apparently the females just don't want to bother with that nonsense. They're almost as aggressive as the females.

Here on my writing journal! Obviously nowhere else because I intend to edit it up and send it off for publication. If you're not a member, you should be. :(

[fuyu]

But people who've rationalized such an attitude about women won't really see how dumb it is for any reason other than "but of course men are just as good as women!"

Good point, and unfortunately true. It's still an interesting feminist thought exercise, and I'd love to show it around my college campus or something and prod at people's reactions, but it wouldn't be a big surprise if they were mostly that sort.

I was not a member. :( This changes now!

[fireholly.livejournal.com]

I think my gut reaction was ARGH FURRY to be honest, but then it decayed into one that's pretty similar to yours. The woman's obviously a misandrist and completely casual about it, and my instant reaction was something along the lines of 'ha, that's funny, stick it to 'em'.

And I don't like that. Because if I reverse the genders she becomes a horrible 'he'.

So, yeah, I feel quite uncomfortable.


From a fictitious point of view, I think it makes a pretty interesting point that prejudice isn't an exclusively male thing - it's a simple lording-it-over-the-underdog reaction, and that's supported by situations I've seen in everyday life (for instance, I'm only starting to notice the patronising, slip-up-once-and-they'll-have-you, women-are-the-default way that men (particularly straight men) are treated in fandom, one of the most liberal societies ever).

My own gut reaction, though, suggests a lot of truths about myself and my society that aren't totally happy.

[fuyu]

Man, why all the ARGH FURRY. XD

Joking aside, that sort of reaction is very interesting, and I think part of the reason this kind of thing is good to show. It's very illustrative about the nature of prejudice.

It is pretty uncomfortable, when you sit back and look at it. I was kind of bothered that I wasn't more bothered by her casual misandry. Especially because I at least like to think I rail against misandry as much as I do misogyny, because the two tend to feed into each other and are both wrong, but the fact is this just didn't bother me the same way beyond kind of a >:/ face at Grim Eyes for being an unknowingly sexist asshole.

Also, fuck you and your Phoenix Drive icon. Why did I even recognize that.

[unicorn]

More disturbed that I find myself going "whatever" and then catching myself when I'm very tired than anything else; I spot the hidden meanings of this stuff faster when I'm fresh. After that I pretty much echo maladaptive.

[fuyu]

It is pretty interesting, isn't it?

[flidgetjerome.livejournal.com]

I saw it coming, really, even before this panel. I mean, she's a leading matriarch of said highly matriarchal, firmly established society. How else was she going to react to this little boy thinking he could do a woman's job?

[fuyu]

Oddly, I didn't see it. I don't know whether that's me being clueless, or disturbingly more sexist than I thought.