fuyu | (no subject)

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...I'm starting to resent the popular (and I do it too) criticism against typical weepy ukes that they're "girly" or "girls with dicks" or whatever.

Let's not insult little girls by comparing them to those sobbing wastes of ink, guys. Ukes are like... crying little babies. It's the immaturity and helplessness they express when in a position where someone really ought to be (at least somewhat) mature and independent that makes yaoi creepy, repellent, and unhealthy. It's not that they're feminine. It's that yaoi generally features an angry abusive asshole raping a baby in a man's body.

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If a woman is allowed to act in a masculine or feminine manner, then a man should have that same right.

Besides, acting feminine does not make you spineless.

acting feminine does not make you spineless

Precisely, and that's my point.

The typical weeping uke is spineless. Describing him as girly or feminine because he's spineless is problematic.

Edited 2008-08-18 23:14 (UTC)

I know. Aeris was very girly in the way she dressed but she was far from spineless. And there was that feminine guy in Fushigi Yugi (I'm not sure if you watched the series or not) but he certainly wasn't a spineless wimp either.

Yeah, I knew your point and I was kind of agreeing with it. Sorry for not making that clear.

BUT...WHAT OTHER WEAK AND SPINELESS CREATURE WILL WE COMPARE THEM TO THEN IF WE CAN'T USE FEMALES? D:

OOH, I KNOW.

SLOTHS.

YES.

"Slothy" or "sloths with dicks" work perfectly! :D

I love you so much, Shi. XD

Just so you know, I'm going to use "sloths with dicks" for ukes from now on. THANKS.

You know, jellyfish don't have spines.

Jellyfish will also kill the fuck out of you if you get too close. XD

So it might be fair to say that most things in nature are too badass to be considered "spineless", as the misleading term goes?

Okay, this is what I'm getting, tell me if I'm wrong: If it's not fair to call your general Okane Ga Nai-style uke "feminine" to describe the uke's particular cocktail of infuriatingly negative traits, it's also not fair to call them "spineless"?

Assuming I haven't totally misread you, the thing is, there's a difference. "Spineless" is generally theoretical, as creatures without spines are designed not to have them, and creatures with them are designed to have them. A human without a spine would... well, be dead, if we're taking it literally, but more figuratively would be unable to stand up or really do anything, due to lacking any internal support. It's a metaphor, there's no pre-existing cultural bias against jellyfish. (Although people do generally keep their distance because of aforementioned killing the fuck out of you.)

There is, however, a long-standing cultural bias against femininity. Women are fragile flowers. Women get the vapors. Women are delicate. We're getting better, definitely, but using "girly" as a description in cases like this calls right back to those assumptions. Here is a character that is small and fragile and cries a lot and is helpless - he's just like a girl!

...if I did read you wrong please feel free to tell me I am stupid

Edited 2008-08-19 00:42 (UTC)

Okay, um, I was-- being funny? I think you were being serious?

...I was and mistook you for also being serious XD;

I-it's cool. ^^;

MY HUMOR SENSE IS KINDA BROKEN

anyway hi how are you XD

I am all right. Waiting for work to be over; I ran out of work to DO about...half an hour, forty five minutes ago, really. It's kind of depressing.

How are you?

I am likewise all right, if frustrated at college. New website and apparently I'm not allowed to register, I have to be admitted to the college? Even though... I already am? wtfballs.

I've also been thinking of asking if you'll make good on that threat of showing me Avatar! I'm wanting to see it more and more lately, everything about it sounds cool.

God damn, the one thing I miss least about college is dealing with the BS website stuff. (Right after that on the list is the bookstore, of course.)

Oh baby, you come on down to my place an' I show you good time, real stuff dis here Avatar disks baby oh yah--

XD by which I mean OF COURSE, just let me know when's a good time for you and I'll be happy to. It's really fun. I need to make Emma watch it too, but I probably won't have much luck there, since she's as elusive as the summer rain.

Sometime during the next week will probably work! If not an upcoming weekend. As soon as I have all this college BS sorted out, I'll see how stuff looks. :3 YAY FOR AVATAR.

Sounds rad, just keep me posted and I shall make my schedule part like the red sea! For the record, Friday afternoons aren't particularly good for me because that's when I visit my folks. Sunday evening or sometime Saturday might be the best time, unless a weekday-evening is good for you (in which case, tuesday is out, Monday and Wednesday would have to be late, but Thursday's an earlier possibility.)

In all probability, Saturday would be the best time for me too. :D So we're probably looking at that.

(Also, I ♥ Alphonse~)

I was actually bringing up the inappropriate nature of the word "spineless" as used to describe someone helpless as a sort of jab at the use of the word "girly" to describe someone who is theoretically helpless-- ie, if being spineless doesn't actually render you unable to fight, being girly doesn't actually render you unable to help OR fight, ergo, why aren't people just calling them helpless ukes, which would be accurate and less asinine, right?

(that is to say, I do agree with you)

I would also accept "useless ukes", but of course, as long as you can stick a dick in it, I guess it's not totally useless for the pornhappy internet, eh?

(Al is yay~)

Ahaha, so I doubly failed XD Excellent point!

"Useless" strikes me oddly, personally. Maybe it's the particular context. Anyway, yes, helpless is the best word.

(He is!)

Don't worry about it, the internet is made of anger and sex. I've been discovering more and more that there's like a 70% chance that anything I say will accidentally piss someone off, so I'm constantly prepared to explain what I actually meant, versus what came across.

Useless would be pretty weird, but I like it for the alliteration! You could have Sex-crazed Semes, too. But yeah. Helpless describes the condition, anyway.

Oh, Internet. You and your wacky inability to convey tones of voice and body language.

Useless Uke, Sex-crazed Seme. I like it.

The internet tries so hard to be like people ;o; ~~My roommate doesn't believe that people who exist to him only on the internet are fully real people XD~~

:D Alliterative Altercations: Sex Stories to Slick your Slit

oh god I need to stop now

Ganbare, Internet-tan~~~ ;o; ~~I think my dad has trouble with that too. XD~~

WIN

Ohgod, agreeing so hard.

It's the immaturity and helplessness they express when in a position where someone really ought to be (at least somewhat) mature and independent that makes yaoi creepy, repellent, and unhealthy. It's not that they're feminine. It's that yaoi generally features an angry abusive asshole raping a baby in a man's body.

And joy, this is how so many people feel they must write yaoi! Because someone has to act feminine in a pairing, and what other way is there to get that across than the classic weepy uke (bottoming, to boot!)? Which leaves the other to be the DOMINATING TOP SEX MAN. Because that's all there is to being masculine. Such shallow definitions!

asklfjdskfj I'm always afraid it's going to cause stereotypes that will carry into real life perceptions of people and uugh do not want.

Well... when it comes to yaoi, I try not to hate the sexual fantasy, but the notion that it is or should be real. For example, lots of people have rape fantasies. Of course, very few of these have anything to do with real rape - and they would never, ever want to be raped for real. I think it's mostly to do with letting go of guilt and anxiety and just lying back and letting someone else take charge of the situation; also, the power play can be viewed as erotic.

I think it's great that Japan has this huge genre of pr0n made by and for women. And that's what yaoi really is - no doubt some men read and draw it, but they're in the vast minority. I start seeing red when people yammer on about how yaoi is a sign that Japan is very accepting when it comes to homosexuality - bullshit; it's largely made by and for heterosexuals and their wanking purposes. Which is, in itself, fine. I love the fact that the female audience gets its own wide-spread brand of porn; that's an attitude that I'd like to see spread. But yaoi is porn and thus has nothing to do with real homosexuals or real relationships. Oh sure, occasionally a shining star appears that actually comes closer to reality, but then again, there are porn movies that are considered film classics.

*takes a deep breath* Oh. I seem to be getting srs on the intarwebz. XD;

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